Did Naruto use Kyuubi's powers vs Kakuza

This is something that has confused me for the longest but i think i understand somewhat now. You see Im not sure exactly what kyuubi did in narutos fight with kakuzu or whether it was even present at all. I think Kyuubi actually wasnt used at all. Now there is clearly an indication of kyuubi being used against at the start of the battle by narutos slanted eyes.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=41371
see the eyes?

Now the reasons I state naruto is indeed using his strength and not the kyuubis are simple.

1. Naruto himself stated that he wont use the kyuubi anymore and that it would be fully surpressed form now on according to yamato.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=29712
yamato specifically says that narutos kyuubi will be completely surpressed from now on.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=29713
yamato then sasy that he shouldnt rely on kyuubis strength but his own.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=29714
and naruto agrees.

2. Naruto always gets healed(if there are wounds to be healed) after kyuubi usage. Check this out.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=41366
kakuzu even notes narutos beat up appearance so we know naruto is indeed beaten up.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=41371
even after "kyuubi" is used naruto still looks beaten up and is indeed not healed.

3. Naruto generally has darker lines on his face, a pretty ferocious expression, more pronounced canines and claws, and doesnt have a calm mind when kyuubi is in use.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=41371
In this pic we see no darker lines, a ferocious expression, or claws.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=41394
his canines look fine here.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=41395
and narutos mind is calm enough to use his KB info and intellect to figure how many KBs he is going to need.

4. The anime(minus all of the filler) is virtually a color version of the manga. Narutos eyes were shown to be blue during this paticular encounter while they usually are red when using kyuubi. More reason to suggest that this isnt kyuubi use.

5. Yamatos comments on how naruto was able to make only 2 FRSs in training but how he made 3 against kakuzu.

http://groups.msn.com/narutomangaret...&PhotoID=41281
narutos eyes were normal when using the jutsu here.

http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaRet...&PhotoID=42401
yamato stated it was quite impressive how he was able to use it 3 times and said nothing about his eyes showing that kyuubi didnt play a fact the fact that he was able to use it 3 times implying that it was his own chakra.

Danzou is Tobi and impersonating Madara to become the next hokage.

Disclaimer:

I made a post regarding danzou a few days ago in order to gain some insight into common danzou theories and people kept telling me that there were hundreds of posts already discussing the matter. Ironically, yet unsurprisingly, when I requested the individuals making these statements to post a link to the hundreds of posts, the most anyone came up with was 4 links to various vaguely related topics, the most recent of which was made in august of last year. So please, keep this in mind before responding with something along the lines "THIS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED 1000'S OF TIMES!!!1" I believe there's been enough development since august to justify a new topic and the issues raised in this topic are significantly more detailed and thorough than anything I've seen that has been posted before. If I am wrong, feel free to link to any post or topic discussing this matter that was made recently.


Foreword

The main reason I want to discuss this is because of a few recent developments involving Danzou, mainly him explicitly stating his desire to become hokage and overthrow tsunade, but there are several others.

Danzou is scheming something, and I strongly suspect Danzou is going to start playing a very significant role in the manga regardless of whether or not anything in this post turns out to be true (which honestly, is highly unlikely). What is undeniable, however, is that danzou is definitely up to something, which is backed by the manga (http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/424/02/). What he's up to is highly ambiguous and as such, I want propose a possible theory as to some of the extent of danzou's plans.


Unanswered Questions

There are some particularly puzzling questions about Tobi, Madara and Danzou that have yet to be answered. If we assume that Madara = Tobi and answer these questions, we arrive at some troubling conclusions. Feel free to offer responses to any of these question that you feel are more suitable than the ones I've chosen and I'll replace them. These are merely what I've perceived to be common answers.

1) What is the point of the Tobi disguise if it's Madara behind the mask?
There isn't really much point at all.

2) Why would Madara try to infiltrate his own organization?
Again, there really isn't much point. We could come up with a far fetched justification, however, like maybe Madara gets off on pretending to be some low-tier moron in front of his subordinates.

3) Why does Tobi wear a mask?
Again, there really isn't much point. We could come up with a far fetched justification, however, like maybe Madara gets off on pretending to be some low-tier moron in front of his subordinates.

4) Why does Danzou wear a bandage?
The reason for this hasn't been stated and assuming Madara=Tobi doesn't really help in answering this question. Something like this could be as simple as an old injury, however, it conveniently leaves Danzou's right eye concealed. As a result of this ambiguity, nothing can be said on this matter for certain.

5) Why does Kisame not know that Madara is pulling the strings in akatsuki?
Not really sure. We could come up with a far fetched justification, however, like maybe Madara deliberately concealed his involvement and only reveals himself in private meetings for uh...If anyone wants to finish that one off, be my guest cuz I'm really at a loss...

6) How did Tobi not realize that Sasuke failed to capture killerbee if Tobi is actually Madara?
Maybe EMS isn't capable of recognizing a jinchuriki. I guess they are only good at controlling the things...

7) Why would Itachi leave an amaterasu trap that Madara could put out?
Makes no sense unless we come up with a far fetched justification like maybe Madara lost his EMS, or maybe Itachi didn't know EMS could put out Amaterasu.



Summary of some basic facts:

-Danzou has his right eye covered and Tobi's sharingan is in the right eye.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/424/02/ - Picture of Danzou
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/19/ - Picture of Tobi with sharingan

-Tobi can perform a space/time jutsu that enables him to travel large distances instantly. This kind of ability would be REQUIRED if Danzou was disguised as Tobi in order for there not to be obvious plot holes.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/02/ - Tobi about to be blown up
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/17/ - Unspecified, yet obviously a short amount of time later a shady figure is seen talking to Pain and Konan
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/364/18/ - The shady figure is revealed as Tobi

-Tobi only seems to reveal himself as Madara in private 1 on 1 meetings.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/01/ - An example

-Kisame is surprised when he learns Madara is the one "pulling the strings."

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/01/

-Tobi's face has not been revealed to readers.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/ - Obviously I'm not lying, but feel free to double check

-There is a large amount of ambiguity in the manga which could easily lead to an unexpected plot twist.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/ - Again, obviously I'm not lying, but feel free to double check



On to the theory:

I think Danzou has been spying on Akatsuki by disguising himself as Tobi and he has been doing this for a while, while at the same time, trying to gain control over konoha in order to become hokage. Danzou's plan after becoming hokage, I believe will have something to do with the summit of the kage's. All kage's in the same place? Sounds suspicious. I don't dare speculate much further than this as it's already a bit of a stretch.

Note: The summit of the kage's would've been caused by danzou, if danzou=tobi. It would mean that it was danzou who manipulated sasuke into fighting killerbee, the incident which triggered the summit of the kage's.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/417/15/

Only recently has tobi been revealing himself as Madara to members of Akatsuki. In fact, it's almost as if everyone who knows (or thinks, I should say) that Madara is Tobi, has found this out by Tobi "revealing himself" in a private 1 on 1 meeting.

Example:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/02/

It seems strange, no? Kisame seems to know Madara quite well yet he was unaware that Madara was "pulling the strings". How is this possible? Perhaps it's because Madara ISN'T pulling the strings. Perhaps it's because Akatsuki is being manipulated by Danzou. Perhaps Danzou is meeting people 1 on 1 so if they ask too many questions, they can be taken care of before anyone else finds out what he's up to.

It sounds to me like Danzou is planning something huge and is using or manipulating Akatsuki by pretending to be Madara. Danzou seems to be heavily exploiting the mystery surrounding Madara.

Something funny:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/424/02/

It seems almost as if Danzou knows how useless Akatsuki is from his experience in the group as Tobi. He would've seen deidara ragesuicide, he would know about hidan and kakuzu messing up, he would've known about sakura and chiyo killing sasori and he quite obviously knows of sasuke's failure to capture killerbee.

Gai is still the best Character

Looking at the number of Gai threads popping up, I decided I might as well make one which I had been planning for just a short while. First , let me clear up any doubts and misconceptions, I think Gai is physically the most powerful ninja in Narutoverse. By this, I do not mean to say he is the most powerful over-all or even that he is in the top tier of power levels (lol). This thread is a direct response to all those who think Naruto, Pain and HM Jiraiya are as fast or faster than Gai, or more powerful physically. This would also include said character's power-ups, with sage mode. Remember, I am not talking about who can win in a fight, or who is more effective in their battle style, merely that Gai is still on a different level of physical combat from at least SM Naruto, and definitely Pain.

First, let me say that Gai is the trademark for speed in the manga. Hes fashioned after Bruce Lee, the guy who gets paid tribute to in several anime and action video-games, the characters based on him being the among the fastest in their anime or game (Fei-long comes to mind). Sure Naruto is the main character, and Gai's role can be considered more or less trivial to the plot, that does not mean Naruto can simply surpass the guy who represents physical combat in the manga. This reason is just the premise, now I start with databook and manga evidence.

I have to say that so far nothing that Naruto has done physically is on the same level of what we have seen from Gai in the manga, save of course the rhino tossing . I have already made threads on why Naruto is not mach speed, and still not close to Gai speed. I think its important to understand that Naruto's base skills (other than his intelligence) did not increase dramatically (if at all) during his training. This is because Naruto's training was to improve the effects of sage mode, not his base stats. It shows, Naruto is a monster in sage mode. The power up is incredible. But unfortunately for Naruto, his databook stats are still abysmal, and sage mode can only enhance the base stats. Heres where the difference comes in with Jiraiya and Gai, who are already super-powerful in base mode physically :

Naruto: Taijutsu - 3.5
Strength- 3.5
Speed - 3.5
Stamina - 5

Jiraiya: Taijutsu -4.5
Strength- 4.5
Speed - 4.5
Stamina - 5

Gai : Taijutsu - 5
Strength- 5
Speed - 5
Stamina- 5

Notice how Gai has the top stat in all categories related to physical combat, whereas Jiraiya is close, and Naruto is far off. Now lets look at the power up. Jiraiya's sage mode was incomplete , but he still received a power up that let him speedblitz Pain a couple of times , and increased his power over-all. HOWEVER, we do not know by how much Jiraiya improved, its pretty obvious he'd get 5's in all categories but how far we dont know. Looking at Naruto, Sage Mode has turned him into one of the strongest ninjas in the manga, but from comparing his exchange with Pain to Jiraiya's, we can find his speed relative to Jiraiya. The best example I think, is when Pain tried attacking the two, both with different outcomes :


http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/377/07/
Jiraiya is able to speedblitz Pain.

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/431/13/
Pain is able to evade

The difference here, is that Pain tried sneak attacking Jiraiya while he was distracted, whereas Naruto clearly saw Pain apporach him. If you think each individual Pain has their own speed and strength ( I dont) then notice that Jiraiya wouldve taken out the faster Pain body. So HM Jiraiya is still clearly faster than SM Naruto. This is the best example I could choose, becuase clearly both Pains are attacking , and both Konoha shinobis countering.

Now Gai's power-up is arguably even crazier than SM, if you can believe it. Manga fact is that a genin can surpass the power of a hokage (hokage at the time being Sarutobi the God of shinobi)when opening all 8 gates:

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/85/10/

Logically, someone more powerful than Lee can surpass hokage level before the 8th gate, as its still just a powerup adding to the base stats. Base Gai is arguably hokage level (if you consider Kakashi hokage level that is). I'll leave it to your imagination the power boost he'd receive. And remember, Gai has enough stamina to use 6 gates without causing intense damage to his body. We know this cuz he wasnt exhausted after his Kisame fight, and took on a clone of himself ! Hell he ran from the sand to Konoha with Kakashi on his back ! So in terms of power-up, Gai not only has greater physical base stats but his own power-up surpasses that of the scary Sage Mode. Pain cannot possibly hope to compete in speed with these monsters.

I've already posted the links for Naruto's and Jiraiya's speeds. Just to confirm that Pain's taijutsu is lacking at the very least, remember that his kic was evaded by Kakashi and Konohamaru, his blade stab evaded by Naruto, and he couldnt even reach Jiraiya in time to land a move ! Now, heres Gai's speed feat :
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/15/

The amazing thing about this feat is not only the fact that Kisame had no time to think before Gai landed the kick, but that Kisame had actually attacked much earlier than Gai but Gai's kick was just too fast. In fact, you can see his foot is on freakin fire cuz of the speed ! Clearly Gai is faster than HM Jiraiya and SM Naruto, cuz so far both of them were pretty damn fast, but their body parts werent igniting with every move they made. And seeing as hes able to connect with his moves, I'd say his taijutsu surpasses their's as well (seeing as hes the Taijutsu god).

Now for strength. This is one area where Gai does not hold a distinct advantage I admit. Naruto's tossing rhinos, Jiraiya smashing bulls (I used to deny this but I had to take it as an inconsistency), and Pain enters the frame as well for blocking Jiraiya's punch and Naruto's kick. Remember, what Deva Pain did was no easy feat, Naruto has the power to lift freakin giant summons. But Gai is still at least the same level of these dudes. Even after using the Gates, and in base form Gai was fully confident of breaking a giant boulder :

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/262/03/
Notice the crazy noise of impact that follows

Also, he hit Kisame so hard that the impact on the water was similar to Itachi's bunshin explosion :

Itachi -http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/142/12/
Gai -http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/258/19/


Notice that Kisame was set in flames, and at least part of the water evaporated off the heat given by the body. This means that Gai hits his foe so hard its comparable to an explosion ! In any case, in terms of strength
Gai is at least equal to if not more powerful than the others.

And finally, a point more on the future of Gai. Notice that out of all the people not in Konoha during Pain's invasion, only Team Gai was specifically out of the village. Notice that even though Team Gai has been reduced to near fodder level, compared to the rest of the cast Gai still has a vibrant history in the manga, and a rivalry that isnt finished. I really think Kishi is gonna bring these two monsters together. I mean, Kisame has outlived Itachi, who was more important to the plot. And its not for for fodder related purposes. Remember that as the series progresses the fights become more intense and crazy, Naruto's current fight being the biggest proof. Remember that Kisame has still not shown us even HALF of his power, and Gai not his full potential. It makes sense then, that a fight between these bijuu level monsters could only be postponed till after the Main characters get at least a little action so that side characters like Gai and Kisame dont steal their thunder. And this fight is gonna be physical on Gai's side, indicating hes still got more power than what hes shown us (which seems pretty mad). So yeah, those are my reasons, discuss !

Naruto Senin Mode

So it looks like Naruto is more powerful than J man, but lets see, I still think
Pein has something up his sleeves and next two maanga chapters should clear it..